fly? The first is the normative judgement that the individual's All “tax” means is a financial charge levied by a state for public services (in this case, a road). Absolutely. I choose not to pay for a federal department of education. He has turned Jon’s comment section into a wasteland where the overwhelming majority of the comments are Greg Webb in an excruciatingly predictable and insipid conversation with himself. There will be a fight for importing. $5.00 Why Health Care is not a Commodity When I tell this story to my students, many of them are fooled. Now, please explain why all your rights are granted by government. I had almost forgotten. Jury nullification would seem to be one more barrier between the accused and an unjust law, or against unwarranted prosecution where conviction would result in injustice. You probably exchange (export) your labor for the things you want instead, like food, clothing shelter, etc. Government must think its fair too. Yep, we can’t. According to these “experts”, isn’t it good to import everything be it goods or services. Perhaps one of the greatest concerns about S 1804 is the long transition period. It also protects against rights violations by individuals seeking vigilante justice. “In addition I am forced to pay for services for others who can’t afford to pay for them – whether or not those people even want the service they can’t afford.”, “If you get the benefit of what you are being taxed for, it’s okay.”. Because… whoot! "As economists," the letter reads, "we understand that universal, publicly financed health care is not only economically feasible but highly preferable to a fragmented market-based insurance system. I can recall one instance when I had trouble finding a spot to pull off the road to change a flat tire without running over several corpses. But yes, the hypocrisy can be a little stomach churning. Healthcare is not a commodity but a public good, and we want to see a strong commitment of government and IFIs alike to the implementation of the SDGs instead of pushing policies that deepen inequality and inequity. You are better than your friend, Greg Gossip who believes that government grants your rights, but not much. Yes, I remember those horrible days prior to EMTALA when anyone who failed to carry proof of medical coverage with them at all times, was likely to be left to die, bleeding and unconscious, by the side of the road. Morally, you have no right to demand medical care of me. If you can’t do it yourself, how can you assign an agent to do it? Let’s start immediately with the USPS monopoly on 1st class delivery. I choose to buy a hamburger from McDonalds and I can choose to buy something from a competitor if I choose, or I can choose to buy nothing at all. Or alternatively the daughter dies anyway, because she had some condition that didn’t respond to treatment with honey and ginger root. And, I have lots of competition for my job. It will take preparation and hard work. Do you mean theft is a necessary part of civilization? Oh, I know. You’re welcome. I could also say something like this: “We hold this truth to be self evident: that gravity exists as a natural force in the known universe, and that it operates such that every object with the property of mass in the universe attracts every other object with mass as follows:”. That seems to be a pretty good argument, if you ask me. It would truly treat health care as a public necessity and not a commodity. Another major contributor to higher prices is the incessant meddling by government in the market for medical care and insurance. Health care as an economic commodity. “That is the kind of reasoning that caused Bentham to call natural rights “nonsense on stilts.” You are trying to simply define away the problem with some special pleading.”. The threat of getting badly mauled by a more capable lion may discourage theft of that lion’s dinner by another. Did your comment address choice? In addition I am forced to pay for services for others who can’t afford to pay for them – whether or not those people even want the service they can’t afford. You, as an individual, import those things you want but can’t reasonably make for yourself, and export that which you can make easily. “When the founders said “We hold these truths to be self evident…” they weren’t literally claiming that they were self evident.”. In fact, I don’t think that merely arguing for things is what makes them true and I sure didn’t say that. 2. sorry for the divergence. Let us see how many of these free traders would take up my suggestion. Thank God for government intervention, eh? “As hospitals are required to treat patients until they are stable, you now have a situation where it makes sense to provide basic medical care to treat chronic conditions that often lead to very expensive hospitalization”. As medical student Mike Pappas describes, we need to look beyond access to care and recognize that: “We must address the social determinants of health. “In the past 48 hours, I see statements such as “taxation is theft” or “God strike me down if I must compromise on my principles”.”. You can get legal forms from the internet. No matter how much I need bread, I do not have a right to steal your wallet or hold up the local bakery to obtain it. Do you harvest the cotton you grow, process it and use it to make your clothes? If one party or person takes ownership, then the issue can become a political football, as the ACA has become. Healthcare is a commodity—and a finite one at that. I think our difference is in defining which, if any, “rights” are natural and what “rights” are social constructs – guarantees by the state against abuse by the state. i mean, people lie an misrepresent that stuff all the time. But what they might consider to be doable won’t solve the health care crisis. But your necessity does not change the basic math: Medical care is a service and a good provided by a third party. I will respond later today. In a better world, judges would have wide discretion in sentencing, and justice might be more frequently attainable. Yes. Tito is a world-renown cancer researcher and gifted public speaker. At the time I didn’t realize the incredible irony, but just now it made me laugh out loud. HR 676 would create a publicly-financed not-for-profit health care system. No doubt that’s so. natural rights may be enumerated by constitution, but this does not mean they can be made up out of thin are. “ And Jury nullification can work against the rights of the accused even more easily than it can work in their favor.”. Perhaps you wish to reconsider that argument. Because that is all they have. They are not open to debate for anyone. I believe human beings have certain inherent characteristics that are observable, and predictable, and that will be displayed by each individual person as they interact with the world around them. A broad rational national health care insurance policy for the United States, providing for universal financial access to health care for all citizens, has both "meaning" and "validity" in that it would address actual socioeconomic concerns and could be implemented. : I = Independence – we must be independent of political parties and willing to pressure all members of Congress, the White House and federal institutions to achieve the health care system we need. “Their point was to say that these are our assumptions and values. Deirdre McCloskey has written a lot on that subject. I want the legitimate functions of government such as national defense. That could refer to natural law, common law, or statutory law. We meant actual pizzas that are individually assembled and prepared by hand for immediate consumption on the spot. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/09/04/ig-report-300000-veterans-died-while-waiting-health-care-va.html, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-195277/NHS-death-rates-times-higher-US.html, “They also suggest that long waiting lists mean diseases are more advanced before they are treated.”, “Also, take health spending as an investment.”. Let us do that in every field. But the left believes that declaring necessities rights somehow overcomes the individual rights of others. My point is that the notion of natural rights is so elastic as to be virtually meaningless in political debate. I’ve been laid off when my company relocated its manufacturing facility. And once again, people are rising up in opposition to the plan, making it unpopular and unlikely to pass. Healthcare spending is no more an “investment” than is spending to maintain and repair your car or your washing machine. And they are never satisfied. None of these things are to “opposed to US manufacturing”. I may recognize your necessity and offer charity; my friends and I may choose to band together and fund your medical care. I know you believe that some magical political order emerges from the state, just as order emerges from free markets, but I don’t see it. Market order emerges from no one being in charge. If you’re concerned with the expense, it makes sense to NOT treat chronic conditions until a patient is near death, and will then cost the least to treat. It does not mean cutting the other taxes you are currently paying because government implemented a user fee. Do you mine and refine the ore you use in your factory to build the car you drive? Doesn’t the right to a trial and jury require a service provided by other people? The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. Some we may not be able to do like Hot food. Unless your answer is “Yes”, don’t look now- you’re an importer. Of course you are correct that any socially constructed right must be reasonably compatible with human nature in order to be meaningful. Pro 2 Instituting a right to health care could lower the cost of health care in the United States. Or to put it more specifically, no to the right to profit, or benefit, from the forced labor of another. In my opinion, no one has a right to something that must be provided by someone else. To have lasting success, this needs to be a multi-partisan effort on the movement’s terms. You didn’t realize what a hornet’s nest that innocent comment would stir up, eh? Until we in the United States decide to de-commodify our health care and health by implementing a universal, single, publicly financed, national health program such as Medicare for All, we will remain in our current state of ethical underdevelopment. It is always the case that we are each better off when we pay as low a price as possible for the things we want and need. but we can still levy such a tax without it being theft. And, as any good trial lawyer will tell you, you do not want jurors who feel coerced or really just don’t want to be there. Are you trying to tell me that animals don’t bowl? In practice, no attorney wants someone on the jury who really does not want to be there. Jury duty is compulsory according to legislation. do not endear conservative values to the public.”. rights are not merely socially constructed. so how are we to resolve this inevitable divergence where that which one perceives as a benefit, another sees as an injury? But, you cannot hire a lawyer from India who knows the ins and outs of the courts, particularly in a speciality area like I practice. ”. Healthcare is the maintenance or improvement of health and the prevention of sickness diagnosis, and treatment of disease, illness, and injury. I happen to believe that there are no crimes against the state, but only crimes against people. “It’s clear that modern notions of liberty have only had currency for the last two centuries. BTW thanks for reminding me why I no longer respond to Greg Webb. We should worry about both, not just one.”. But when you have as impoverished a variety of ways to describe ideas you disagree with as you do, I suppose you just have to go with what you’ve got to work with. I see that it took morganovich exactly one conversation to size him up correctly. We created a chart comparing HR 676 and S 1804 and a chart outlining the transition for S 1804. Did you really think that I was saying that the mere fact that people made the argument made it true? maybe you get it a little wrong and it’s just wobbly or it will last for a time, then fall. but the ones that let it stay up are always the same. My point is that, when people invoke natural rights they are stating their assumptions and values, not proving their conclusions. So why aren’t all jobs outsorced? It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. The government (we the people) prosecute and a jury of your peers (we the people) decide. We decide we want something (a right to trial by jury) and then decide how to provide it (compulsory jury duty). Ah, a “tell” for cognitive dissonance. Just try to deprive anyone who opposes natural rights by taking their life, liberty, or property and watch how quickly they fight you. That is what adults do. Otherwise no threat of force would be necessary. “ The main arguments both in favor of and against slavery were both natural rights arguments for example.”. “A commodity is any good or service (“products” or “activities”) produced by human labor and offered as a product for general sale on the market.” The government doesn’t compel me to meet certain health standards so they shouldn’t provide medical care. A gas tax is theft. I mean that’s a yep to no slavery. Every official will be visiting every other nation and will welcome all imports. But the bottom line in this fight is profit for a few, not health for the many, and so it is the public who suffers. people should be allowed to trade with whomever they like without the state getting in the way. Many progressive activists and organizations have mobilized since the election to offer well-documented opposition to highly dubious potential members of the Biden Cabinet. You work at a job so you can buy stuff. But, then you have to because you can only make disparaging comments. Good thing for you that they do, otherwise you’d be scratching in the dirt trying to grow enough food to feed your family (and not much else). American Enterprise Institute Markets are the solution in medical care, just as they are in virtually every other area. Shit, we’re down to 75%? The weaknesses of S 1804 prevent it from fully transforming our health care system to a public service. Why would that be any different than having to pay for the hamburger you get at McDonalds?”. does it have rights? Or reduce taxes. I get calls regularly from clients who start the conversation with “you know that thing you told me not to do, well I did it, and now I am in trouble. I don’t recall anybody saying that. But keep battling Ram – the people are with you and Trump on this. Trump knows this – that’s why I’m such a fan. In that case, why do we need to export. Kevin Zeese is an American political activist who has been a leader in the drug policy reform and peace movements and in efforts to ensure a voter verified paper audit trail. Aristotle was wrong but he was not “disingenuous.” As for trying to justify American slavery, some sincerely believed the argument and some didn’t. Movements for social transformation have always been told they are asking for too much. Yes they are. I believe in “fair” trade not “free” trade. It sucked, but it’s not the company’s obligation to provide me with a job. Investor-owned facilities are permitted to continue to operate within the system and budgetary controls that might restrain them were excluded from the bill. That is a Constitutional right that has been long held under English jurisprudence. If people wanted those things for which taxes are collected, they would pay for them voluntarily, and they wouldn’t be called taxes, and there would be no need for threats. it’s possible to make a coherent natural rights argument for or against abortion. In reality, it is neither. “You just don’t see other species respecting rights and forming either representative governments or your beloved bowling leagues. Any person who says that health care is a right or basic necessity but supports keeping the existing market-based structure is either confused or lying. Because of the basic economic concept called “comparative advantage”. The problem is you both have a far too simplistic theory of trade. S 1804 is the Medicare for All Act in the Senate that was introduced on September 13 of this year by Senator Sanders with 16 co-sponsors, all Democrats. Their point was to say that these are our assumptions and values. And they are never satisfied. that seems like the pivotal distinction to me. Health Over Profit for Everyone (HOPE), a campaign of Popular Resistance, sent a letter to Sanders before he introduced his bill urging him not to compromise from the start. Thanks for the laugh. Absolutely. . Yet, despite the erosion of the public system, the contrast between these two facilities, the former fully private, the latter fully public, couldn't be greater. Please explain how we can all voluntarily discriminate based on race through HOA agreements. “The areas which have exponential increases are in industries where the product is still “made by hand”, such as medicine and education.”. It has strengths and similarities to HR 676 as well as weaknesses. Why is the price higher for essentially the same service? but it still bears as a natural law. Let me know when you come up with a valid argument against natural rights. Efforts to introduce universal health coverage in all countries will move healthcare closer towards being a public You just don’t see other species respecting rights and forming either representative governments or your beloved bowling leagues. but others disagree and want the DEA and the drug war. Those folks have a monopoly on the building and maintenance of roads, for all practical purposes, and the ability to extort money from anyone who sell fuel under threat of violence. Why didn’t the right self-actualize? The answer: There can’t be. Heh you’re the fourth person to recommend that to me. Theft may end up being my least immoral choice under the circumstances, but that does not make it a moral choice, or suggest that I have not violated your rights in pursuing my own needs. but I could not in good conscience think people be refused basic health care because they were poor. the others make it wobblier. I think we agree on that much. you will not be arrested, have your assets taken, or anything else. As I’m sure you’re aware, jury trials developed as protection for ordinary citizens against the arbitrary tyranny of the king. It currently has 119 co-sponsors, all Democrats, plus Rep. John Conyers, who introduced it. And, you can read the law and court decisions on the internet. Would YOU allow someone to die in the street for lack of money to pay for care? It regulates how doctors deal with patients, the sorts of training doctors must undergo, and the sorts of insurance they must maintain; all of this convinces fewer Americans to become doctors. U = Uncompromising – we must stay strong and united around the basics that we need to achieve for the National Improved Medicare for All health care system to function. Perhaps you would prefer to call them natural instincts. It is neither related to, nor an extension of, a natural right. It has strong language protecting women’s reproductive rights and it removes most co-pays and deductibles. The examples we used, plumbing, brick walls and pizza are final products, and cost no more than they ever did. Every individual has the natural right of liberty. “He has turned Jon’s comment section into a wasteland where the overwhelming majority of the comments are Greg Webb in an excruciatingly predictable and insipid conversation with himself. “They problem is that government exceeds its constitutional limits and then uses force to charge me way more for things that no one agreed to nor benefitted from.”. “On this point, the left are very good emotive language”. We assumed you were referring to education and medical treatment as products made by hand. . I don’t. All that foreign competition forces US manufacturers keep prices down and quality up. Sorry for bringing a divergence opinion from the stated topic. It is the primary source of funding for defense and many other programs. 1. Efforts to create a national health insurance have existed in the United States for the past 100 years. The reason is simple: we export so we can import. He refers to these compromises as “more palatable approaches” that were considered to be politically feasible, but each “self-destructed.”, These failures, including the most recent ACA, have driven health care deeper into the pockets of private industry from the provision of medical services to the production and distribution of pharmaceuticals and medical devices. Allow me to demonstrate this via a parable: The Boston Red Sox currently employ David Price as a starting pitcher. the state will not come for you. But we have no such rights in relation to private property. An import tariff is a de facto export tax. But, we can all look at both a negro and a pig and tell that they are not the same type of thing. I believe that, even in the absence of a state, judging people guilty of a crime and punishing them for that crime without a fair trial would be a violation of their rights. if you want that, you gotta pay. Health Care: Private Good vs. Public Good By SIEGFRIED G. KARSTEN* ABSTRACT. Ben conducted the pre-debate vote. but that’s no reason for us to emulate them. Of course you DID use the word “unlawful”. Learn it. Being forced to serve on a jury is one example. ” . “… but we can’t have people dying on the streets because they had no money to see a doctor.”. For them it is better to be ruled in accordance with this sort of rule, if such is the case for the other things mentioned.”. the world would be better if they didn’t. Nation states represent the “emergence” of the dominance of one group of people over another, generally larger group. Sure. Hence, what if we propose let us close all Universities and ask the other nations to teach and we will pay. “ Your rights can be violated by individuals or the state. Government, at all levels, has exceeded the scope of their authority. We need to make more with more, even better paid, employees. It’s time for a real health care revolution of, by and for the people! Let’s have a bit a conversation about this. >—-“As I wrote, it is a privilege granted by the state. I find this view to be inadequate as an explanation of the relationship between an individual and the world he lives in, including his relationships with other people. America considers health care … You don’t think Jefferson meant that to be a first principle that needed no further explanation? *paste* Taking money from people under threat of force is always called theft. I’m not in a tenured academic position. Mergers by health insurers, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies have been acts of desperation, as each sector fights for control. That is the kind of reasoning that caused Bentham to call natural rights “nonsense on stilts.” You are trying to simply define away the problem with some special pleading. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. Here is Abraham Lincoln on the issue of slavery: “That is the real issue. The only thing I have to sell him is skilled labor, and I don’t want to work for my grocer. “You’re welcome to your imaginary world, one which is inconsistent with human nature, and the history of civilization.”. As I noted, my comment was directed at the specific instance of paying for roads that you use. Further complicating matters, the majority of healthcare … They may not know you’re interested. there are rights upon which they can be based and those rights are subject to natural laws. “My point is that, when people invoke natural rights they are stating their assumptions and values, not proving their conclusions.”. Social interactions between two or more people may or may not include recognition of, and respect for these natiral instincts of the other party or parties, but I think that for the most part, people tend to seek agreement on mutually beneficial codes of conduct that provide the most benefits to themselves at the least cost, including voluntary trade, specialization, division of labor, and mutual defense. (I’m not being sarcastic. . Jim Kavanaugh of The Polemicist argues that S 1804 may actually be a “Trojan Horse” for the Democrat’s favored proposal, a public insurance they refer to as a ‘public option’ being added to the current mix. It is a social construct designed to protect our life, liberty, and property from the abusive state. Ha! Of course most human “representative governments” lack the consent of the governed, and therefore have no legitimate authority over non-members. Let’s not forget your denigrating statements about those with public school educations. And we need to force people in other countries to buy stuff from US companies, even though it costs more to buy from us than from companies in their own countries. They were actually keenly aware of how controversial these claims were. "When I hear, healthcare is a right, what I hear is, 'healthcare will no longer have choices, we will provide it as a government commodity and you can wait in line.'" Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. If we had the above situation, people would surely revolt. And, everyone is willing to fight for them. It didn’t with the “Hope and Change” crowd. defining what “a person” means does not really affect the rights structure that works. Let Ruthie emigrate to South Africa and see how she enjoys it. The founders were saying that the rights to life, liberty, and property were self evident to all. At the very least, I think we can acknowledge there is a difference between the right to free speech, which represents no restriction against you but rather against other people to not act, and a trial by jury, which represents a call for people toact? That is why adults stand up and say “Mr. It is intended to protect people accused of crimes against the state from state tyranny by interposing other ordinary people between the state and the accused. The US makes more with less employees. If Abraham Lincoln’s views were “impoverished,” then I am guilty as charged. it’s simply not something that has any enforcement. Much cheaper. Hopefully, Ram and you will come up with some logic and objective, verifiable evidence to support that tariffs will benefit the US economy. It decides medical reimbursement rates for millions of Americans, particularly poor Americans; this, in turn, creates an incentive for doctors not to take government-sponsored health insurance. But, government is not entitled to charge me for more than the amounts necessary to perform those legitimate functions. Thankfully Trump is all over this issue. The use of health care is rivalrous in the fact that a doctor’s visit by one person precludes another Never mind that many Americans do not believe that public agencies are in fact providing adequate schooling, pollution control, and crime prevention. You have already paid for the roads with your income, property, and sales taxes. I had almost forgotten.”. Tariffs make countries poorer. Thank you for bringing a divergent opinion. The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to achieve the progressive realization of each of these rights.” Yet the World Health Organization ranks South Africa somewhere near the bottom of the globe in terms of medical care. No, it did not. A gas tax is a user fee charged to those who use the roads by those who own the roads. There was no more a monolithic voice at that time than there is now. Exactly. Yep. Shapiro is a lawyer too so you know he is a good guy. We are willing to fight for them and they are not really open for debate. We also understand it is human nature for some people to arogantly believe that they know what is best for everyone, and that forcing otherwise peaceful people against their will is acceptable. What, do you think you’re being compassionate and caring by robbing some people you don’t even know to pay for medical care for other people you don’t even know? BTW raising your own chickens is an incredibly costly way to get them – whether to eat or to use as money. They refer to this as “stabilizing the market.”. “Of course there is a grey area over where you draw the line …”. If you judge someone guilty and punish them for an alleged crime without a fair trial then you are violating any meaningful understanding of their rights. Its strengths are that it endeavors to achieve a universal Medicare for All system with more comprehensive coverage than what most people have now. A commodity is a good or a service that is exchanged for money. 12 July, 2017. if you do not pay your tax, nothing happens. It is a social construct designed to protect our life, liberty, and property from the abusive state.”. you can try to argue that someone is not human and thus can be treated like a horse or a dog, but that’s not really the same thing. Perhaps political order would also emerge with no one being in charge. it rises to the definition extremely clearly. Pure hyperbole. You are the one who is quite predictable. Many of them reveal great economic ignorance. “… why don’t the Red Sox fire David Price and outsource his pitching functions for me for 1/100th the cost?”. Emergent orders may or may not be beneficial for humans and are often some combination of the two. “The main arguments both in favor of and against slavery were both natural rights arguments for example.”. Those of us who believe that “all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator” do not make such a distinction. ”. Isn’t importing good. We already had a negative natural right to our persons and property, before governments even existed. To elaborate further, on the question of rights, we should consider whether there are any positive rights at all. in your opinion, which is often incorrect. And, it does not take long for them to get sufficient experience to replace you. No. Do you grow all the food you eat? Whether others choose to respect these “rights” depends for the most part on a determination by the potential violator of the personal cost of doing so. Write CSS OR LESS and hit save. We discuss what it will take to win and how to proceed. “Sure. Jon Murphy asked, “It’s [the right to a trial by your peers] not related to life or liberty or property?”. A fair trial doesn’t just protect against rights violations by the state. For those who say we should have anything less than a universal system, we ask: who should be left out? We might agree on some other word to use to describe them if you prefer, but I can’t deny their existence. They are not views. It is a strong and growing sector. It has been introduced every session since 2003 and it has broad support from the single-payer health care movement. So you are okay with theft and being unprincipled. And, we can look at a white man and a black man and tell that they are the same type of thing. As I keep saying, I’m not against trade and I prefer lower tariffs to higher ones, but I am more interested in the art of what’s achievable. One speaker, Dr. Alan Meyers of Boston University, got to the heart of the matter by asking this question: Is healthcare a basic human right, or a commodity to be traded on the open market? Since buying imports is how foreigners get currency to buy or exports, reducing the level of inputs bought reduce the amount of dollars in foreign hands, which necessarily means they can’t buy as many exports. I read his comments less and less but I am ambivalent about skipping them because that can mean missing some hilarious bits of unintended irony. Because you don’t get elected if you don’t promise them? I suppose that’s another possible explanation. Just for fun. if it’s just a mass of 200 cells is it a person? Health generally is not considered a public good, because non-paying individuals (for health insurance, healthy food, etc.) If you get the benefit of what you are being taxed for, it’s okay”. Practically, declaring medical care a right does not guarantee its provision. Since passage of the ACA, major health insurance company stock values have quadrupled. Asymmetric information. However, if the internet service company charges me more than we agreed to, then it is stealing from me. Yes. Do not try to have them enacted into law.” And then we explain why he should not do so. To argue otherwise is simply a disingenuous argument using natural rights language incorrectly. Winning the fight for a National Improved Medicare for All health care system is possible. Most interesting. In my opinion, no one has a right to something that must be provided by someone else. This is foolhardy, both morally and practically. Like people who never graduated with a university degree yet criticize people who attended public schools. for this, we need some sort of general tax (i think it should be property so everyone pays in proportion to how much is being defended). Government should build roads, primarily at the State and local levels. Duh. As I keep saying, I’m not against trade and I prefer lower tariffs to higher ones, but I am more interested in the art of what’s achievable.”. BTW, I will keep pointing our your hilarious mistakes. As it turns out, a person may ignore a jury summons with little fear of consequences. Also, take health spending as an investment. Only three audience members agreed with the proposition that healthcare is a commodity. Most developed countries in the world understand health care to be a public good, provided by government action to ensure all citizens have access to care. the best way to to make taxes as user pays as possible. Aristotle made the natural rights argument for slavery. “Sure not every policy of his is perfect”. Thus, the excess taxation plus the borrowing is theft. The number of people employed in manufacturing is going down because of automation. No it doesn’t. It turns out that peaceful cooperation and mutual agreements on codes of conduct generally provide better outcomes for everyone involved than war and plunder. Firms are always hiring younger, better educated people. No, I’m not aware of any species besides humans that establish representative governments. There is nothing in our nature or God given, if you prefer, about a trial by a jury of our peers. If you are not constantly improving your skills to enhance your value to your employer, then you are being very foolish. This suggests that you have been reading comments by Greg Webb. Even if they don’t levy tariffs against us, you still see fewer exports. With complexity, comes greater costs. There is nothing “magical” about this. “Ok then. Shapiro is a nasty guy. morganovich- “this seems like a really slippery issue and an impossible standard.”. Commodity security exists when every person is able to obtain and use quality essential health supplies whenever he or she needs them. The field of medicine must be taking giant strides backward. If I buy internet service and later refuse to pay, the internet service company is justified in using force against me to get its money. The assumption we are making with the NHS bill is that healthcare is a commodity to be traded and patients are savvy, sceptical consumers. But this concept of a fair trial is a social construct that exists only because the state exists, and in cases of a jury trial, may require that someone be placed in the service of the defendent against their will. Tariffs are not conservative values. We cannot attach this movement to any political party or politician’s agenda. No. >—-“BTW thanks for reminding me why I no longer respond to Greg Webb. We are often told that politics involves compromise, but some compromises undermine our goal. I suspect many people share that view. “They were actually keenly aware of how controversial these claims were. Such a concept wouldn’t necessarily exist if the state didn’t assume the authority to accuse people of crimes against itself, which may or may not have actual victims. No. Sure, but isn’t that jury a result of your right requiring some kind of action by other people (in this case, sitting on a jury)? This history is important because the elites in power are working to maintain their grip on the system. they were not “made up” so much as “discovered” in the same way that the arch was and they are not arbitrary nor flexible if you want to build a durable structure. Or does it depend on the situation? They might change in future. You’re aware, of course, that people can be charged with a crime by a group of people calling themselves “The Government”, whether or not anyone’s rights have been violated. I do not have a taxpayer subsidized job. Sure not every policy of his is perfect, but I’ll take the 75% on offer and the steal the rest later ! You would do much better if you used logic and objective and verifiable facts. That does not make it a valid argument. the world would be better if they didn’t. ” I assure you, it is a lot easier to get out of jury duty than you seem to think.”. the state will, literally take no notice of you. They were big on the “No taxation without representation” rallying cry.”. The problem my employers have is the same one that all employers have: “do we terminate a guy who have excellent technical and analytical skills whom the clients love and go with a younger guy who does not have those skills at his level who have had little connection with his clients. Now with that the state could in principal charge you on a per mile basis, the mileage being collected on an annual basis during a auto inspection. 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How, exactly, can there be such a right without the government’s rationing care, using compulsion to force individuals to provide it, and confiscating mass sums of wealth to pay for it? doesn’t include being forced to pay for others. Imagine my surprise that you still don’t have a valid argument against natural rights. But that’s also true of government-sponsored medical care, as the most honest advocates will admit. Or increase transparency. “if other nations screw their people, that’s sad for them. I’m all for lower taxes etc, but I could not in good conscience think people be refused basic health care because they were poor. That is why it is “related to” the natural rights of life, liberty, and property. He tends to write that and other meaningless drivel when he has no actual argument. Why would that be any different than having to pay for the hamburger you get at McDonalds? “We are willing to fight for them and they are not really open for debate.”. Health historian, David Barton Smith, writes (in a draft chapter) that the fundamental struggle in the US has been over the question of whether health care is a commodity … Health care as an economic commodity. One way it does so is with the right to a trial by jury. Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. if other nations screw their people, that’s sad for them. You have just described a private justice system. HR 676 is considered the ‘gold standard’. Many other species appear to defend their own individual sense of self determination just as humans do, but I doubt they think of that as having natural rights. It is disingenuous for anyone to argue that “You work and toil and earn bread, and I’ll eat it.” And, it is disingenuous to make that argument whether you are Aristotle or Stephen Douglas or Greg Gossip. Many so called civil rights are acknowledgements that individual rights exist, and promises that the state may not interfere with them. Their plan is to give billions of more dollars to the industry to encourage it to cover our health care needs. Yep. Under HR 676, all people living in the U.S. would be included in the system, there would be free choice of health professional, the coverage would be comprehensive and care would be provided as needed without financial barriers. That is not quite correct. Or something. they also get it wrong. To make a commodity cheaper and better, two elements are necessary: profit incentive and freedom of labor. It isn’t in itself a natural right. Another weakness is the exclusion of long-term care and keeping it in Medicaid, which forces people and their families to live in poverty to receive benefits. Generally wrong roads are typically financed by road taxes, gasoline, registration fees and in some cases property taxes (typically only local streets). As John Locke said, the purpose of government is to secure and protect the God-given inalienable natural rights of the people. I think rights are probably our most important social construction.”. States, like the rest of the industrialized world, has defined health care as a common good. Their point was to say that these are our assumptions and values. It doesn’t happen. It’s necessary to start from first principles that can’t be deduced from any other principle. If you meant the latter, of course, “unlawful” can mean whatever you want it to mean. . We spend more than twice per person per year what other countries spend that have achieved this. We will import all services. In that case, why don’t we ship every damn service job including the poeple who comment here. Diagnosing a sore throat requires more training than it did when the service was paid for in chickens? So a “criminal act” is whatever you and your gang say it is. Major irony: the perceived, 2016 “change” candidate was and is utterly incapable of change. “Sometimes taxes are a necessary part of civilisation.”. you’re on your own. The costs of protecting and providing your rights goes hand in hand with the effort to prosecute you. This includes understanding which proposals are insufficient too, such as the much-promoted public option and lowering the age of Medicare. And that he has joined the ranks of the very few people who have been trolling so transparently and repetitively that they have had comments taken down from this site. Unfortunately, I probably won’t get to it until the summer, “If people wanted those things for which taxes are collected, they would pay for them voluntarily, and they wouldn’t be called taxes, and there would be no need for threats.”. two of the most beautiful words in the English language. I believe Mark Perry posted an excellent article recently about how US manufacturing is, by itself, the 7th largest economy in the world. President Obama’s ACA was written by and for the medical industrial complex to enrich the few, and he is already receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars for Wall Street speeches. “Trump knows this – that’s why I’m such a fan.”. This is why we say that the smallest incremental step that we can take in the U.S. is to create a National Improved Medicare for All, a universal publicly-funded health care system that relegates private insurers to a supplemental role to provide extras that the system does not cover. And, it is a specialized type of law that the government has obligingly made so complicated that few understand it and cannot navigate clients successfully through it. And Jury nullification can work against the rights of the accused even more easily than it can work in their favor. taxes collected from the unwilling by threat of violence are theft. People across the country are organizing teach-ins and movie nights, doing outreach in their communities, attending town halls and meeting with their members of Congress. you can have a right to property, but not a right to have someone else protect that right. All of these things require scarce resources combined with labor (another scarce resource) to produce the final good. . Examples are food, housing, cars, cute shoes, and healthcare. “Just let your company know what you are doing.”, “We can find a company in Phillipines or India who can do your work.”. A trial by jury is a political privilege granted by government. There are law offices who are training people in India for American Jurisprudence. that sounds like theft to me, although it’s probably one of the fairest forms of theft – if there is such a thing. (Note a toll device costs only $5 so if you live there it makes sense plus it works in the Orlando area as well.). You are absolutely right MP; but, when you live in a wealthy nation, governed by a democratic process, trying telling that to the people and getting elected to office. You are trying to blur the distinction between a person voluntarily paying for something they want, and being mugged. The purpose in this section is to examine these for the evidence they provide for public or private provision of health care.1 Consumer rationality Welfare economics makes two crucial assumptions regarding consumer rationality. “Why do tariffs need to be on the table at all?”. it’s only the definition of person that shifts. So people should be free to trade as long as they’re satisfied it’s fair? I know your views. Extract from the Civil Society Report "Spotlight on Sustainable Development 2017" -the new global report assesses how privatization and corporate capture have become obstacles to progress under the 2030 Agenda. i just want the right to make my own choices without interference just as i want you to have the same right and not have to care about what i want. By imposing a tariff on importing goods will reduce our imports. Thank god for that. >—-“the fact that people made an argument for slavery and called it natural rights does not make that claim true.”. As with any other commodity, health insurance cannot be created by a government mandate. I don’t want to have balanced trade with my grocer. Those and millions of other products that are “made by hand” haven’t increased in price in any measure of individual income including number of hours worked at average or median wage/hr. Overall, it is a time to be optimistic. While I’masking hypothetical questions for the sake of it, is taxation always theft? They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. Yard care has been increasingly mechanized, with immigrant labor used to minimize costs. Jon, I think there is a difference. Health care is not a service that follows standard market rules; it should be provided as a public good." Thank you to all of you who wrote to his office. The rest of your comment doesn’t make much sense, so I don’t know how to address it. our current tax system is theft. They include negative “rights” to life, liberty, and property. Those are not more expensive than they were decades ago in constant dollars. Markets, e ciency, and health care. It is. It was just your typical name calling and disparaging statements that you do when you know you are wrong. can it claim a right to enslave a mother and force her to carry it against her will? On this point, the left are very good emotive language; the right is not. However, it is extremely important to the structure of the Canadian system that the gov- ernment delivers health insurance as a public good, not health care. Most universal systems are started at once – on a certain date, everyone is in the system. The movement for National Improved Medicare for All has made great strides this year. Learning could be almost as cheap and easy as buying, renting, or streaming movies at home, but for government meddling. the way we do such a thing is to take the compulsion out. Period. Taking money from people under threat of force is always called theft. Yes, they keep talking about how import is great. Everyone’s job is always in question. No more, no less. societies are the same way. Agreed. The result is an overreliance on emergency care, costs for which are distributed among government, hospitals, and insurance payers. Abraham Lincoln famously pointed out why when he eloquently explained why people could not be property. And whereas government-sponsored medical care requires a top-down approach that violates individual liberties, generates overdemand, and quashes supply, markets prize individual liberties, reduce demand (you generally demand less of what you must pay for), and heighten supply through profit incentive. It would truly treat health care as a public necessity and not a commodity. “It’s not the same service. if you have not paid the tax, the police will not protect you. Yes, they were. You probably didn’t ask to be prosecuted. could we not manage all volunteer juries? According to these “experts”, isn’t it good to import everything be it goods or services. We do have a choice. The delayed implementation period over four years is such a complex transition that there are concerns it will proceed poorly and support for a universal health care system will disappear before it is complete. It’s easy to be pro-trade when your jobs are not in question. I understand that – always back the horse called “self interest” cause you know it’ll try the hardest. You must be a “progressive” democrat for Trump. Angell … No one is opposed to US manufacturing. (1) That health care is most efficiently distributed by a free market mechanism; and, (2) That medical services are an ordinary commodity. “Consider what would happen if you were in an accident, unconscious, and didn’t have your insurance information in your pocket.”. The plan had failed for two reasons: First, it violates individual rights; second, health insurance is a commodity-a good or service created by businessmen for trade in the marketplace. “Personally, I think you guys are the lunatics.”. Those trying to justify American slavery knew they were wrong too. They can talk to you. Are you suggesting that people are inherently stupid? The government destroys both of these elements in the health-care industry. it’s sort of a finessing of the issue (in a very disingenuous and despicable fashion) but it may be true that some people honestly believed that africans were not people. If you restrict demand based on race, then home prices fall. I practice law for a living. Now, if we can get the US government out of the bailout business, then we will probably end up with smaller competitors taking over the bloated bureaucracies at GM, firing a bunch of “managers,” and actually begin making great American cars again. It will add to the economy. , ‘Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that she would model new constitutions on the South African constitution, which guarantees that “everyone has the right to have access to health care services, including reproductive health care. That is why Franklin changed Jefferson’s original words from referencing God, for he know people regularly deny God, to self evident because he knew that no one but the disingenuous could deny rights that they would fight for if you tried to take them away from them. Health historian, David Barton Smith, writes (in a draft chapter) that the fundamental struggle in the U.S. has been over the question of whether health care is a commodity that belongs in a market or whether it is a basic necessity that requires the protection of government so that it is universal. “This suggests that you have been reading comments by Greg Webb.”. We can eliminate all Professors and replace them online with professors from india/Phillipines/China etc. I’ll take the 75% on offer and the steal the rest later ! A criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person’s consent.”, http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/theft, “In common usage, theft is the taking of another person’s property or services without that person’s permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.”. i would actually argue that the slavery thing goes the other way. Brick-laying and plumbing income has largely tracked median income, which had been growing until the last couple of decades. If you are sick, you now have the right to demand that my wife, who is a doctor, care for you. Now on freeways you could do toll by plate as it is done in Miami, where a picture of your back license plate is taken and you get a monthly bill with a $2.50 service charge plus the tolls. yet we have had religious wars for millennia. Under HR 676, all people living in the U.S. would be included in the system, there would be free choice of health professional, the coverage would be comprehensive and care would be provided as needed without financial barriers. Is there any limit to this right? Now, instead of reform heading in the direction of public health, we are seeing the commoditization of health care. Oh yes and , I do, but most rights violations by individuals are pretty straight forward, while many rights violations by the state are considered legitimate. If Senators vote before the September 30 deadline, they only need 50 votes instead of the filibuster-proof 60 votes to pass amendments. As you also surely know, jury trials are not the norm world wide, and are mostly found in countries whose legal systems developed from common law. In the US we have a “right” to travel freely, which means the government won’t stop us from peacefully traveling. . Ok then. Do you make your own soap? We can’t be fooled by progressive veneers. If you get the benefit of what you are being taxed for, it’s okay. this seems like a really slippery issue and an impossible standard. “it should be good for any desk job too.”, “Let us see how many of these free traders would take up my suggestion.”. We all know that no two individuals are exactly the same, but we also know that individuals are the same type of thing: human beings. Remember how you rejected the laws of supply and demand to argue that restricting the supply of buyers based on race would cause home prices to increase. I believe there aren’t, because they would require that someone be placed in our service to provide us with whatever we had a positive right to. it’s also one i think we could mitigate. Just let your company know what you are doing. ”. The kid determines the quality of his or her education, not whether he or she went to public school. You won’t be disappointed. i could care less what you or the state thinks is “fair”. That is because you are an idiot who cannot make a logical argument for tariffs. Ostensibly, those people sitting on the jury are the same ones who are prosecuting you. the phrase “religion of peace” springs to mind. “Like when he told you he the had to get off of Facebook because other people were too argumentative,”. How would you justify taking your neighbor’s money for any reason if he didn’t want to give it? Interesting argument. but defining “human” is always a bit arbitrary. The Sox could fire him and hire me at League minimum ($400,000 a year, or about $11,000 per game) for the same job,saving them $846,000 per game. C = Clarity – we must educate ourselves and others about basic health policy so that we understand what elements are required for the system to meet our goals and our needs. Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. Technology and the internet have increased the (potential) productivity of instructors by orders of magnitude. What part of “self evident” do you not understand? I mean, as long as we don’t leave the country like all those progressive entertainers did when Trump was elected? Even Puck could see what fools these mortals be. If you are interested in some really interesting thoughts on this matter, and since I know you don’t read much these days (ha) I would highly recommend “The Problem of Political Authority” by Michael Huemer if you haven’t already read it. By common convention I call these “natural rights”. This is how we did Medicare as a totally new system in 1965 before we had computers.
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